over on theDot there is a thread brewing over a statement that said koffice isn't a kde app. inge took exception to this (and i agree with him there), stating that because it was shipped by the kde project, it's a kde app. this got me to thinking (again) on this: what is a kde app?
IMHO if it's an app written using kde libs, then it's a KDE app. if it is also maintained by the kde project itself (which is also rather nubulous), then it's a kde app maintained by kde. how confusing! =)
here is how i arrived at this point of view: few would argue that an app (no matter who wrote it) written using win32 APIs is a Windows app. even if it doesn't come from Microsoft. fortunately for Microsoft they have two names (Microsoft and Windows) where we have one (KDE) and so they don't suffer from similar ambiguity. same for Apple and Macintosh: not all Mac apps reflect on Apple because not all Macintosh apps are written by Apple, whereas any app labeled "KDE" reflects on "KDE the project" due to confusing naming.
on the one hand we want to say, "digiKam, k3b and amaroK are kde apps" (and most of our users and observers would agree with that statement today) so that we can make the argument for kde having a diverse stable of applications. on the other hand, we probably want to distance the kde project itself from shoddy apps and so hesitate to call all apps using kde libs "kde apps".
so do we change the name of the desktop, or do we change the name of the project? ok, i'm kidding. well, sort of. maybe.
we need a mechanism by which to recognize kde apps that aren't maintained by the KDE project as being "KDE apps" without it being confused as being "an app maintained by KDE". we need two nomenclatures.
maddog suggested to me in january that we ought to create a process by which applications can become certified as kde apps. but i'm not sure that's a workable scenario: it's a lot of overhead for both us and the 3rd party app developers and would require tracking changes from version to version. hell, we don't even do that for "maintained by kde" apps even.
i begin to consider, in a moment of complete insanity, that perhaps we ought to call kde 4.0 something else. let's see: microsoft windows, apple macintosh, ibm os/2, kde ?
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[L]et's see: microsoft windows, apple macintosh, ibm os/2, kde __ ?
Plasma?
I vote for KDE Plasma too.
My vote is for Plasma too :D
What about using "KDE apps" for official packages and "KDE based apps" for non-official applications that use the KDE libaries.
kde.org and KDE, that's how I differentiate.
Actually this issue is why none of us amaroK devs have a cool cloak on Freenode. Markey and I are recognized project contacts for amaroK, but then lilo decided we weren't separate enough a project.
so anyways, I agree the whole issue is a pain.
kde.org vs KDE looks good to me, too.
If I understand this correctly, then we want a name which will stick until the end of time. Plasma might be good for the upcoming KDE4 but it is a sub-name, like vista (for the upcoming microsoft windows). "Kde.org KDE" is a bit confusing. Its like saying "OpenOffice.org OpenOffice". I'll think about this one some more and post again.
Even a name tied to KDE 4 can work, if it's 'upgraded' and pushed enough. IE, if instead of KDE 4, it is marketed as KDE Plasma such that people start saying that they are running Plasma on their computer, instead of saying that they are running KDE, that would work. Then a distinction could be drawn between the Plasma packages and other KDE apps.
Assuming it's another 5-year transition to KDE 5, that will be high time for a fancy new brandname anyway. ;-)
KApplication for programs using kdelibs and KDE app for programs shipped by the KDE project
I've been reading this with interest. I think you have to be careful not to shun the brand that is now KDE. But can't you just add something for this particular version of KDE? For example, take Roberto Cappuccio's suggestion (I really like the name) and have KDE Kaleidos or something?
I mean Microsoft already have Windows XP and Windows Vista and Apple have OSX Tiger et el. Perhaps kde could have a more attractive title than "4" for the next release?
Of course this doesn't take away the problem of Project/Program branding but if the next release is do be so different structurally, than third party developers will only be writing shall we say "Kaleidos" applications anyway.
And if a suitably good name is found for the next release then who knows, it might well just stick for the future.
Just a thought.
Let us say there are Kore apps and non-Kore (Desktop Environment) apps ?
Actually, changing the project name is probably best. Then you can make distinctions as between Windows Apps (from anyone) and Microsoft Apps (those from the 'project' making Windows), or as between Mac Apps (from anyone) and Apple apps (those from the 'project' making Mac OS.)
So if the project is renamed Kaleidos, and it still produces KDE, the KDE name is still the important one, but a distinction can be made between KDE Apps (from anyone) and Kaleidos Apps (those provided with KDE.)
As a side-benefit, the K can stand for something again - KDE would be the Kaleidos Desktop Environment.
Sounds good to me!
changing to project name is impractical for a number of reasons, some practical (changing all those domain names, the web sites, etc) and some legal (e.g. our trademarks and the e.V. association)
it would be far, far easier to just brand our desktop app collection.
Well, Mandrake/Mandriva pulled it off in a couple of weeks, and they had a lot more work to do than KDE would, since they changed the name of their product as well as their company.
Since KDE would still be KDE, there should really be minimal change involved. Register some new domains, but the home page of KDE would still be kde.org so that wouldn't change - perhaps the new page would be the equivalent of developer.kde.org. Branding, logos, documentation would all be unchanged. Perhaps the eV would need a renaming or something, but that's not insurmountable; companies rename themselves all the time. The trademarks shouldn't matter either, since again, the product is the same.
I guess I'm gung-ho about this because I'd really like the K to stand for something ;-)
I like Kaleidos too
So it would become :
Kaleidos App for official app included in KDE
and
KDE App for non official app based on KDE libs.
KDE would mean Kaleidos Desktop Environement so you wont have to change yours domains names
Attempting to make non official app use anyother thing than "KDE app" is pury fantasy IMO as so much people are already used to it.
Plasma is the best name for KDE 4
I'm partial to Kaleidos too, though I was thinking Komodo would be cool (komodo dragon, konqui...) anyway...
As far as branding goes though, I really don't understand how this is any different or more confusing than "Windows app". Maybe it's just because Windows itself comes with so few apps, but most people understand that most Windows apps aren't produced as part of the Windows project, even if they are still produced by Microsoft?
But I think what staz says is on the money. I hope this point hasn't been forgotten in the lead-up to the 4.0 feature freeze.
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