first,
bille reports that even with full debug and all the pretty bells and whistles turned on kde4 runs rather well already on a 1GHz system with 256MB of RAM. what will happen when we optimize things even further in future releases? new technology, better (and more) features ... while keeping the same or smaller footprint. are we finally nearing the end of the era when each successive release of desktop software requires more horsepower? well, at least in the free software world; seems people like Microsoft are still having a hard time figuring this trick out, what with nary a mention of Vista on low end devices like the eee pc; it's always XP-on-$DEVICE noise.
meanwhile, over on
it wire Sam Varghese has these nice words for the koffice developers and
their position statement on ooxml:
".. in a world of weasel words, it is refreshing to see that a group can enunciate a principled stand so clearly and with no ambiguity at all."
more plasmoid hackers continue to show up in my inbox, and many of the bugs being reported on b.k.o against plasma are actually already fixed which means we're edging ahead of the curve.
there is softly fluttering snow on a not-too-cold day outside, and lots of sunshine.
it's such a smoothly going day that i might never have guessed it was monday had the calendar not said so ;)
17 comments:
"first, bille reports that even with full debug and all the pretty bells and whistles turned on kde4 runs rather well already on a 1GHz system with 256MB of RAM"
... *and* Qt3 + KDE3 libraries from the KDE3 app (powersave) he's running *and* it's not touching swap!
Hopefully this will lay to rest the fears of those who insisted that KDE4 would have Vista-level resource usage.
I wonder if this was using KDM and, if so, whether it was KDM3 or KDM4?
Nice. I'm using a 1 ghz, 397 MB ram, nad looking forward to the switch.
The problem is that it's X that's using all my ram...
I'm glad KOffice is going to reamin with the ODF standards. The ODF lib for KDE brings a lot of ideas, particularly the possibility of printing to file, but with extended capabilities.
I'm looking forward to RC2 tomorrow, though my test machine's video drivers seem to have gone kaput (it's an intel 1945 graphics accelerator) I can run KDE, but the graphics look like I'm running in a Tandy :P
The comparison of KDE4/KDE3 footprint vs Vista/XP is uncalled for. KDE is only a desktop, Vista is an OS.
What made Vista a lot heavier on the ram is the new driver model. The graphic and sound subsystem are eating a lot of the memory Vista is taking when compared to XP. Everything else is not significant because it can be disabled (the desktop search indexer, superfetch (superfetch, while a great idea for a computer with 2go of ram, isn't doing a stellar job on less than 512mb) aero.. take them out and your memory will breath)
And unlike KDE4, Vista still comes with an option for the users who do not like the XP and Vista menus. Yeah, you can get the win95 start menu in Vista.
The classic start menu is STILL an option in Vista.
@anonymous:
"The comparison of KDE4/KDE3 footprint vs Vista/XP is uncalled for. KDE is only a desktop, Vista is an OS. "
fine, then compare KDE+Linux, KDE+FreeBSD, KDE+OpenSolaris. the picture remains the same.
"What made Vista a lot heavier on the ram is the new driver model. "
i call bullshit, unless they have found a way to make general hardware drivers take 500MB+ more than previous kernels. if that is the case, then i'm completely amazed at their engineering (not in a good way) when compared to the Linux, *BSD and Solaris kernels. do you have data you could point me to?
moreover, i'd also be impressed if the kernel is the reason for all the user space pokiness. it's rediculously slow at just about everything.
then again .. perhaps MS really screwed their kernel up that badly. somehow i think that's a bit beyond them.
"The classic start menu is STILL an option in Vista."
ok, mr. anonymous ... if you're going to harp on something and try and show me up, you really, really, really ought to do your homework. read this:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2007/12/rockstar-of-day.html
and then realize how much egg you just spread on your face. congrats.
so ... what was your point again? vista as an OS blows, but it isn't all the desktop's fault (lacking data to back up the assertion, but ok) and that ... everyone still has a simple menu as an option. fair enough.
I read planet gnome every day and boy do they have some vocal assclowns, politicians and general headcases. I wonder why not more of the "regular" developers oppose them. It happens but not very often.
hello aaron,
my monday was totally awful, but after this good news it's going to be better.. But it's alredy tuesday.. ;)
Is this speed/resource optimization recent?
Because most people using KDE4 until RC1 says it's a bit heavier than KDE3 (that makes sense because of debug surely).
I have a Duron 1.6Ghz with 512 and I'm hoping it will be good enough to run KDE4 without going slow to the ground.
One thing that will help a lot is to stop using firefox when webkit is poert (sorry khtml, no love for you, webkit rules).
One of the only reason my mom, uncle, cousins, and I can use Linux as our soul desktop operating is because there is good ms document support in open office. If their was not, we'd all be forced to buy Windows and Microsoft office (shudders).
I 100% support using odf I have even gotten my grade 12 hippy English teacher to use it. I Also lecture everyone of my professors on why they should use it over Microsoft formats.
That said I certainly can't convince everyone. If we'd refuse I would fail my class' that require Microsoft document compatibility, and my mom would lose her job for the same reason.
That's why although I use kde, I support gnome and open office on this. Nobody in free software wants ooxml a stranded, but weather or not it's implemented in floss office apps is moot because that is not a deciding factor on weather it becomes iso approved.
All you do when you ignore something like ooxml that will sooner or later be shoved down a lot of peoples troughs is helping Microsoft because some people would like me any my mom would be forced to buy windows and ms office.
That's why people ostracizing gnome for implementing ooxml is ridiculous. It will be because of gnome and open office's work that I will not be forced into buying Microsoft products. They should be applauded for that. I do wish I had the luxury you have of only using odf, but I don't.
It's okay if koffice is only working on odf support right now because I get the the felling they would not have time/resources right now to support ooxml if they wanted to. But I just ask please don't belittle the ones that do, they are keeping me from being forced to send Redmond more of the little money a student like myself has.
DISCLAIMER: educated flamebait ahead! Follow up at your own risk!!!
Hello Mr Seigo,
First of all, let me state that I am in no ways linked to, nor, for that matter, supportive or apologetic of what Microsoft does. I am the first one who wants FOSS to succeed.
Just a few days ago you got overly infuriated when someone published a "non constructive" comment on his/her blog regarding the overall status of Plasma and KDE. You said -and you were right- that it was "against the community".
Well, let me tell you something: there are also well-meaning communities around closed-source software development too, MS probably being the most notorious one.
MS felt the heat from the market to stay relevant. They attempted something new, and they failed: they delivered something that barely lived up to the hype and to what the desktop computing experience ought to have been these days. They made a risky bet: they tried to figure out what kind of hardware people would be running their OS on come 2005.
So, you see, that's all it takes to blow up an enourmous project like Vista: just one bitch of a bad assumption!
Now, how can FOSS leaders be so incredibly arrogant as to believe that we could live unaware of that risk??? Shouldn't we humbly bring our ears down and carefully watch (read: learn from) the landslides that happen in the industry???
No one should ever feel proud to see MS, Apple -or whatever you think your pet evil contender is- fail. Granted, MS is not perfect, nor are they unethical business practices, but we must admit that they have done a lot to bring computing to your desktop, into your bedrooms and into Joe User's living room. They somehow managed to deliver a faulty, but overall well-rounded desktop OS, and that is something that we, the FOSS community cannot claim to have at the moment.
Another example: Sony and its PS3. Who here thinks that chipmakers will again dare to design something as forward-thinking as the Cell processor, having turned up such an expensive and untammable beast?
Failure is always *BAD*, no matter where it happens, as it stiffles innovation. That very same thing could happen to KDE4 and all its revolutionary technologies. That's something we could learn from, don't you agree?
So, when you publish gems such as:
[..`] unless they have found a way to make general hardware drivers take 500MB+ more than previous kernels. if that is the case, then i'm completely amazed at their engineering (not in a good way) [...]
or:
then again .. perhaps MS really screwed their kernel up that badly. somehow i think that's a bit beyond them.
Just remember: there are a lot of talented and well-meaning developers at Microsoft who must have been under a hell of pressure from the corp's poor management and upper marketing strata. They did what they could and they failed, but hey, at least they tried! I think they deserve some credit for that.
'Just a few days ago you got overly infuriated when someone published a "non constructive" comment on his/her blog regarding the overall status of Plasma and KDE. You said -and you were right- that it was "against the community".
Well, let me tell you something: there are also well-meaning communities around closed-source software development too, MS probably being the most notorious one.'
a) i'm not part of that community, nor do i pretend to be.
b) i think that "community" has some very wrong headed priorities.
c) you're choosing to focus on a negative here when the message was "look, we're doing something right".
d) i'm not going to apologize for noting that our competition has laid an egg.
e) i'm not sorry i pissed too close to a company and/or technology you're evidently fond of.
"No one should ever feel proud to see MS, Apple -or whatever you think your pet evil contender is- fail."
being proud of one's successes is a bad thing? because that was the message, something you are skipping over.
you're also framing this in terms of good-and-evil which i simply do not subscribe to.
"Granted, MS is not perfect, nor are they unethical business practices, but we must admit that they have done a lot to bring computing to your desktop, into your bedrooms and into Joe User's living room."
no, i don't have to admit that. they did as much, if not more, to hold *back* technology over the last two decades than they did to push it forward. the only time Microsoft has ever taken useful steps forward was when they were forced to by an external threat. that they happened to be the company that sold 100s of millions of copies of software should not be confused with the causation of the phenomenon of computing. that is a marketing lie that they have put out there.
"how can FOSS leaders be so incredibly arrogant as to believe that we could live unaware of that risk??? Shouldn't we humbly bring our ears down and carefully watch (read: learn from) the landslides that happen in the industry???"
holy lack of reading comprehension batman! look, the whole point was that we *are* learning from the traps others have stumbled into: we're *not* letting our software stack bloat up insanely. of course we could make the same mistakes as others as well as new mistakes all of our own: but i think we're doing a pretty damn good job of being self-aware of our strengths, challenges and what not.
"Failure is always *BAD*, no matter where it happens, as it stiffles innovation."
that's not even remotely true. one of the strengths of an open and free model is that it is resistant to failures; they can and will happen but they won't impact things with the same sort of detriment when a proprietary solution, esp one with large market share numbers, does.
as for vista's failures, it's not leading to any technology catastrophe .. other solutions are stepping in.
you're considering things from a very broken model rather than from one that allows for failure. evolution, baby.
"That very same thing could happen to KDE4 and all its revolutionary technologies. That's something we could learn from, don't you agree?"
yes, and i've never said otherwise. that's a subtext *you* have applied to my words.
"here are a lot of talented and well-meaning developers at Microsoft"
as well as people in other departments. i know several such people myself. it's a shame they are wasting their lives at such an institution. the money can indeed be good and the internal rah-rah is inspiring, but at the end of the day these talented and well meaning people are trading away their most productive years for benefits that have no long lasting meaning.
that is sad.
"who must have been under a hell of pressure from the corp's poor management and upper marketing strata. "
yeah, most of the failure at Microsoft can indeed be laid at the feet of internal management. i'm not sure i've ever seen quite so disfunctional a corporate management culture anywhere else. =/
"They did what they could and they failed, but hey, at least they tried!"
i'm sure it is frustrating for them. failure sucks, and they earned it.
but there was no heroic, high-minded effort at work here; it was an effort to create a product with the sole intention of making money. there's nothing wrong with making money, unless that's your only goal. if that is your only goal, you have a vapid and empty existence.
"I think they deserve some credit for that."
they deserve credit for working for an ethically hollow company and then failing of their own volition? boy, if i ever go back to school again i want you grading my papers.
ah, one other point:
"but overall well-rounded desktop OS, and that is something that we, the FOSS community cannot claim to have at the moment."
i suppose, then, that all those people using free software, such as on the eee pc, who are not technophiles or geeks are.. what? dealing with a poorly rounded desktop OS?
we have crossed the threshhold of "good enough". now we're working on "amazing".
we have a *lot* of work left to do, but to discount the quality and scope of what we've already done?
especially ironic when you're apologizing for someone else's abject failure, wouldn't you say?
"but overall well-rounded desktop OS, and that is something that we, the FOSS community cannot claim to have at the moment."
Well, my hole family and some friends uses Linux desktops. Before I moved them to it I was swamped with support calls day and night. In my experience it is easier to teach a new platform to a computer illiterate person than it is to try to teach the joke that is windows security. If it were not for people like Aaron and many others the the community I would not even be in the computer industry anymore. Windows is just a said joke in my eyes. It cost so much and is so slow and insecure. On top of all that technology's like wga treat you like a criminal if you change a graphics card a couple times. The 32 bit version can only see under 4 gigs of ram, which is why important things like complex bioinformatics are never done on windows. A sad joke of an OS indeed...
And vista is ugly compared to kde4 hahaha
why do so many linux user say windows is so bad? it's of course not bad. i'm using linux as well and i want to stress that windows actually is quite good, when it comes to performance and security . however it's not free , so we don't use it. but why say it's bad? do we really want to kid like that? let windows be windows and linux be linux. both of them have their pros/cons.
aaron, you rock man, i love you =)
you have the best attitude ever, you're a great coder/hacker and very ethical person, you believe in something the same way i believe in Linux+KDE.
kde4/plasma is the best desktop shell i ever seen, i wish the FOSS had more people like you that arent afraid of creating amazing things, great guys like you makes a difference in this world and for me that difference is all the potential that kde4 has thanks to you and the other KDE developers.
i just want to say thanks and i can't really express all my gratitude with words...
well, i can't wait for KDE 4.0 to be released, it will be great and it rocks already =)
THANKS and keep up your GREAT work!
- aseigo's fan
Aaron, you rock man, I love you =)
You have the best attitude ever, you're a great coder/hacker and very ethical person, you believe in something the same way I believe in Linux+FOSS+KDE, you're a great example to follow and your work gives lots of motivation to people.
KDE4/plasma is the best desktop shell I ever seen, I wish the FOSS have more people like you... great guys like you makes a difference in the world and for me that difference is all the effort that you are putting for FOSS projects like KDE, and all the potential that KDE4 has thanks to you and the other KDE developers.
I just wanted to express my gratitude for all the amazing work that you and the other KDE developers are doing for KDE4.
I can't wait for KDE 4.0 to be released, it will be great and it rocks already in my Linux desktop =)
BIG THANKS and keep up the great work!
-aseigo's fan
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